Ceasuri High End

[Achraf]

... si un articol interesant

Special Report: Watches
High-End Watches as an Investment Strategy
By NAZANIN LANKARANI
Published: March 17, 2010
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/18/fashi ... ted=1&_r=1

PARIS — In 2009, as global markets grappled with the economic downturn, watch auctions had a surprisingly strong year.

True, sales figures fell at both Christie’s and Sotheby’s. Christie’s watch sales totaled $67.2 million, down from $70.2 million in 2008, while Sotheby’s came in at $25 million, down from $50 million. Yet sell-through rates — the percentage of lots sold — measured both by number of lots and by value, exceeded 90 percent for Christie’s and 80 percent for Sotheby’s.

“When you consider that actual sale prices were double to triple our expectations, 2009 was a spectacular year,” said Aurel Bacs, international co-head of Christie’s watch department, speaking from Geneva.

“Total sales for the year were down for one reason. We had secured consignments in the fall of 2008, after the collapse of Lehman Brothers, when the world was in turmoil. Sellers were hesitant to consign the best lots. So volume in the first half of 2009 was down,” Mr. Bacs said.

Still, “our spring auctions showed that prices were strong and the market was hungry for more goods,” he said.

At Sotheby’s, the story was similar, Geoffroy Ader, Sotheby’s European head of watches, said.

“Even though volume was down in 2009, prices remained high, with clients looking for the highest quality watches,” said Mr. Ader, also based in Geneva.

Rare vintage watches and exceptional modern pieces both did well.

A Patek Philippe Reference 1526, from 1942, estimated at 1 million to 1.5 million Swiss Francs, or $943,000 to $1.3 million, sold at Christie’s Geneva for close to 2.8 million francs.

A vintage Patek Philippe Reference 1526J from 1949, estimated at $70,000 to $90,000, sold at Sotheby’s New York for $92,500.

Among modern watches, a Patek Philippe described by Christie’s Geneva as “probably unique,” and estimated at 300,000 to 500,000 francs, sold for 1.89 million francs. A tourbillon wristwatch by Greubel Forsey fetched 3.6 million Hong Kong dollars, or $460,000 at Christie’s Hong Kong, compared with a presale estimate of 2.2 million to 3 million dollars.

“We had feared the worst, yet our watch department was an outperformer last year. This is a very resilient market,” Mr. Bacs said.

Besides impassioned collectors, weary investors appeared to be taking refuge in watches from volatile equity markets and fears of inflation, said Trent Crowley, chief executive of Astorlive, an online watch auctioneer based in Memphis, Tennessee, who specializes in high-end wristwatches.

According to Business Montres, a widely read newsletter and blog, the increasing leakiness of Swiss banking secrecy laws may also have played a role, pushing some bank clients to liquidate their accounts and invest in watches instead.

“Mostly, our clients buy because they love watches. Since 2008, the second question they ask is about investment value,” Mr. Bacs said.

Mr. Crowley said the strength of the watch market reflected in part the emergence of collectible watches as an alternative asset class.

“The collector and quasi-collector watch market has experienced significant growth due to greater awareness of value, appreciation of rare timepieces, and new capital markets seeking collectibles,” he said in a telephone interview from Memphis.

Taking advantage of the market’s strength, Mr. Crowley says he plans later this year to seek as much as $50 million from individuals and institutions for investment in a proposed watch fund, Horological Asset Partners.

The fund, he said, might have offices in Memphis, New York and Hong Kong, but where it would be based is still undecided. “The strongest watch market right now is Asia,” he said. “It may make sense for us to set up the fund there.”

“This horological fund would a first in the world. Our objective is to acquire both modern and vintage timepieces for long-term value appreciation, and also take advantage of short-term strategic positions,” in the international watch market, he said.

According to Mr. Crowley, Astorlive, which as a private company does not publish annual results, has averaged monthly sales of $2 million since 2007 in private sales and public auctions of high-end watches, mostly Patek Philippes. In January, he said, sales hit $6 million. “We track the watch market like a stock market index,” he said. “We know on a daily basis what is moving, where it is moving and how much it is selling.”

Joining Mr. Crowley as a partner in the planned fund will be Jeff Harris, another international dealer and expert in vintage watches.

“Since 2000, the Dow Jones Index has vacillated between 10,000-12,000. Meantime, prices for collectible watches have increased by leaps. After a small correction last year, prices are on the rise again,” Mr. Harris said by telephone from Beverly Hills, California.

“In 2007, global auction business was about $300 million, with another $300 million in private deals,” he said. “There are about 1,000 very serious buyers of collectible watches and three dozen very high-end dealers. This is a niche market in its infancy.”

In addition to long established Western collectors, new and expanding markets are developing in China, India and Russia, Mr. Crowley said.

“Not all watches are investment grade. But there are many fabulous watches that can, in three to 10 years, have a very bright future,” said Mr. Bacs, of Christie’s.

Among its attractions for investors, “a collectible watch can be sold within 24 hours, regardless of whether you are in Hong Kong, Johannesburg or New York,” he added. “I cannot think of another collecting field with a more global appeal.”

Not everyone agrees.

“Auction houses pick their watches one by one, creating a bottleneck in the market. To sell a range of complications, it could take 15 to 18 months,” said Massimo Monti, a principal at Rasini & C., an independent advisory company specializing in alternative and hedge fund investments, in an interview from Lugano, Switzerland. “Right off the bat, there is a liquidity problem.”

“The devil is in the details,” he added. “A watch fund is not an investment that responds to usual investment logic within worldwide-accepted parameters. Here, you have to be very knowledgeable about a pyramidal market, the functioning of the fund, the characteristics of the top end of the market and the interaction among its limited players.”

One advantage of a fund, Mr. Crowley said, is that with $50 million under its belt, it would be large enough to act as a market maker.

“Let’s say we determine that the Patek Philippe Ref 5102G Celestial Sky is undervalued and could be a significant long-term investment. We would acquire not one or two pieces, but all available pieces. This would drive the price up. If the fund determines that the piece is overvalued and the market frenzy is short-term, we would release some or all of the Celestials into the market,” he said.

Mr. Monti cautioned against that, too. Especially in the Patek Philippe market, where the brand itself is both the supplier and a significant auction buyer, “if Mr. Stern decides overnight to increase production of a limited series, the market would be impacted immediately,” he said, referring to Patek’s president, Thierry Stern.

[Achraf]

nu-nteleg de ce-mi da eroare cand incerc sa postez, asa ca apelez la un print screen





http://www.thewatchquote.com/Vacheron-C ... o_4127.htm

[Achraf]

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f381/defin ... 33800.html

Defining a "High End Watch"
My own definition would be something like:

- have to have an "in-house" movement

OR

- must have a major complication (simple day-date, power reserve, moonphase, etc. is out)

OR

- must have a high-end (preferably chronometer) generic movement

AND

- must have decent movement finissage

On the basis of all those, I'd rule out most Seikos and Citizens, not because they are Japanese but because the movement finissage is somewhat poor. In the old (pre-quartz) days, e.g. Junghans would also be out since, although they made in-house movements, the standard was not really any better than watches with generic ETA calibres. I would, however, include non-in-house IWCs, Ulysse Nardins, Chronoswiss, etc. with generic calibres which are of high standard and have good finissage. Chronographs (even with Valjoux 7750) are in anyway since they constitute a major complication, despite their abundance. For the purpose of this forum, I would also restrict it to mechanical watches (there is a High End Quartz forum here too).

Well, that's my 0.02$ anyway.

Hartmut Richter

[rubin]

Am citit cu interes si sunt de acord cu fratele Gherghin.
Eu am pus o poza cu un Concord Mariner SG un ceas grosolan de 5 mm grosime totala a carcasei care este contemporan si inrudit cu Concord Delirium IV - http://www.capetowncorp.com/whatsnew/co ... ticle.html
Eu sunt de parere ca Reverso este totusi un ceas HE. Reverso in sine este o inovatie deosebita si unica la vremea ei. combinat cu seriozitatea brandului JLC, Master control, in house si multitudinea de ceasuri care mai de care mai deosebite pe care le face JLC eu zic ca este HE Este acolo, prezent si coleg cu MUT, Atmos, Duomètre si Gyrotourbillon ( exista si in carcasa reverso )
Nu este HE pentru mine acel UN ! Cum sa fie cand este un 2982 la care s-a adaugat un modul ???
La UN sunt alte splendori - Ulysse Nardin's "Trilogy of Time" Set -in opinia mea - mai mult decat HE !

Pentru a inbogati varietatea ceasurilor prezentate in acest topic, colegul bbcbbc mi-a permis sa fac o scurta prezentare a unui ceas HE !

A.Lange & Sohne Sax O Mat

Carcasa este din aur alb de 18 carate, microrotorul este din aur 21K si platina, mecanismul are 36 rubine si 4 rulmenti. Catarama este si ea din aur 18k. diametrul carcasei este de 38 mm fara cheita iar grosimea o estimez la 9 mm.
Cred ca face parte din familia Saxonia - ca stil.
La tragerea coronitei secundarul ceasului reseteaza la zero.
Las cateva poze sa vorbeasca deoarece eu nu ma pricep sa spun mai multe in cazul acestui ceas.








Ceasul se poate purta si cu mecanismul la vedere - vorba lui iEdy.
Multumesc colegului bbcbbc pentru amabilitate.

[gherghin nicolae]

Frumos ,foarte frumos ...
Eu cred ca si modulul Dubois-depraz este High-end. Este totusi o realizare remarcabila sa reusesti sa aplici acel modul peste un mecanism clasic de ceas.

[rubin]

Frumos ,foarte frumos ...
Eu cred ca si modulul Dubois-depraz este High-end. Este totusi o realizare remarcabila sa reusesti sa aplici acel modul peste un mecanism clasic de ceas.

Ar mai fi frumos ca acest modul sa se poata repara dar in cazul unui ceas pe care il am cu acest modul se pare ca unica solutie este inlocuirea Este un he cam bolnavicios.

[Zar]

Nici unul din cele prezentate nu se incadreaza la High-End (parerea mea). ALS, VC, JLC au alte modele mult mai sus ca nivel tehnic. Cateva ex. de ceasuri pe care eu le consider H-E : Grand Seiko - HB36 (9S85), Citizen - Crystron 4 Mega (8620), Breitling - Emergency (76) Patek Philippe - Grand Complications (89) etc. Se adauga : Co-Axial (Omega), Spring-Drive (Seiko), Perpetual Calendar - la mecanice (Moser, Lange si altii) plus oricare alta tehnologie avansata/de varf.

[priam]

Off topic.

[saphire]

Off topic.

[Claudiu]

Eu am un Audemars Piguet Michelangelo la revizuit in acest moment,si ma intreb daca merita sa ma chinui sa fac poze sa le postez sau nu in acest topic.Se incadreaza in unul din topicurile existente?

[Loox]

Nu e Ulysse Nardin Michelangelo?

[bograd]

.

Eu am un Audemars Piguet Michelangelo la revizuit in acest moment,si ma intreb daca merita sa ma chinui sa fac poze sa le postez sau nu in acest topic.Se incadreaza in unul din topicurile existente?

Nu conteaza incadrarea. Sa vedem pozele

[Claudiu]

Nu e Ulysse Nardin Michelangelo?

Ba da! Ma bucur ca ai sesizat neconcordanta!Unii sunt atenti!

[Claudiu]

Cu acest ceas Breitling a reusit in sfarsit sa intre in liga superioara.
Nu este un High End,dar cu siguranta tinde spre intrarea in randul exclusivistilor.

[Claudiu]

Dupa cum spuneam la un moment dat,mi-am propus sa prezint un ceas.
Se numeste Ulysse Nardin Michelangelo.
Un ceas , nu High End,dar totusi exclusivist zic eu,prin prisma brand-ului si al pretului.







Un ceas frumos,elegant,exclusivist,cu un pret pe masura.


Dar dezamagirea este mare.....






Un mecanism ETA 2892,destul de banal,cu singurele complicatii Power Reserve-ul si secundar la ora 6.

Finisarile sunt ok,dar la pretul la care se achizitioneaza un asemenea ceas,parca te-ai fi asteptat la altceva!